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Thursday, July 19. 2007The Remarkable Logic of Andrew SullivanTrackbacks
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Here's a recap of many, many statements about the war by Petraeus which didn't work out:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/07/19/petraeus/index.html According to Petraeus, we've already won in Iraq - hundreds of times!
Barry, your comments are so reflective of your no doubt decades-long experience commanding elite divisions of US fighting men and women. You must also proudly display wear the 12 different commendations for valor and service with distinction. Add to to this your Princeton PHD and 2 Masters, clear testimonies to your "superb" intellect. We shall not even mention your trademark calm and composure while commanding corp-level units of the military under fire. You are such an authority and in short, D MAN to pass judgement over General Petraeus, who I've had the pleasure and honor to meet in person. Please elaborate on these "achievements" of yours for all to clearly appreciate where you're coming from. Such a warrior hero u are....not, Barry!
Greenwald. Lordy.
The fact that he put interview in quotes alone is enough, even if one wasn't already aware of Greenwald's well-deserved reputation for being utterly useless. You might want to read more carefully, Barry - Petraeus is quoted as saying there's momentum and progress, repeatedly. Neither phrase means victory, or that victory is inevitable. If you assert that claiming progress is being made is a claim of victory, further discussion is impossible and fruitless.
Somehow I doubt Petreus is losing any sleep over Andy's loss of faith in him, even if Andy is the official ethicist for the military.
The bigger question is has Andy ever appeared with Alex Jones? You may not know this, but Alex was the winner of the 1997 Austin Chronicle award for "Best Looking Crank" -- albeit at the time it was the ladies on the Chron staff who were doing the swooning while overlooking AJ's conspiratorial passions. http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid:73973
I don't think any of us are waiting for Ron Paul to deliver a frank and unbiased report in September that could shape American foreign policy.
I think the concern that he's hurt his credibility in advance of that report by appearing in a partisan venue is the issue, not comparing the radio hosts.
So in other words, don't judge Petraeus by the content of his words, but by the venue or platform from which he says them?
Really? Is that your belief?
By appearing in a partisan forum, General Petraeus has opened himself up to being "judged" on something other than the content of his words. We expect politicians to appeal to their base to raise funds and GOTV. What's Patraeus' agenda?
I find the logic of that kind of argument wholly unconvincing...
What about what he actually said -- isn't that the basis by which we ought to judge him?
Nope. We don't judge merely by what one says but also how one says it. What if the circumstances were the same except that it was General Clark and he went on Air America - do you think it would be acceptable? Do you think Hewitt would?
Are you now saying that 'where' one says something is the same as 'how' one says it?
Personally, I wouldn't care if Petraeus said his piece to Air America or MoveOn.org or Daily Kos or National Review or Fox or any other venue -- I would pay attention to what he said. To me, it's what you say, not where. Objections to the contrary aren't persuasive to me...
It's not "the same as" but it is "part of"
If location doesn't matter, then why did the Right go apes#&t over the Dixie Chicks criticizing Bush "in a foreign land"??? It shows poor judgement on the part of Gen. Petraeus - it's as if he's decided that he's serving the conservative agenda instead of serving America's.
Your reasoning is just so silly.
Did you feel the same way when Keith Olbermann interviewed various members of the Iraq Study Group prior to the release of the group's report? What possible difference did that make? Olbermann is a man with strong opinions. Does the fact that Leon Panetta, a member of the group, consented to an interview with Olbermann taint his membership in that group? You don't like Hewitt, fine. But how does that fact alone impugn Petraeus' objectivity -- absent an analysis of what he said? Sullivan wrote that he hadn't even read the transcript of the interview, yet he was castigating Petraeus' decision. I find that amazing.
The man made an error in judgment. Why are you defending this? You sound silly.
The real question is, what left leaning media personage would give Petraeus a forum? In his last visit to Washington, both Pelosi and Reid (and Clinton and Obama) were too busy to attend closed door meetings between Petraeus and Congressional leaders. They don't want to hear the other side. Similarly, I really can't imagine Chris Matthews or Keith Olbermann having the guts to have a strong, intelligent, knowledgeable person like Petraeus on their show to expound an opinion with which they disagree. In that vein, they seek refuge in calling Petraeus a tool, so that they can discount his opinion without even addressing it.
Well said.
They've been working so hard to undermine the war effort, they wouldn't have the guts to stand face to face with Petraeus. If he shouted "boo" they'd wet themselves. |
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