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Poll Checker: 2012 Battleground States and Leaners
A new book from Tom Elia A compilation of actual presidential & aggregate US House votes for the nation & for the 'battleground states' from 2000-2010. When Lobsters Take Flight
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Wednesday, June 6. 2007Are You Barred From Canada?Trackbacks
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Excuse me. She bares the name of a great man. She, Mrs Mandela (winnie), has been been in so much shit you will not believe. Convicted, no respect for any institution, fraude, you name it. In SA she is regarded as ....
Please do your home work and be glad she was not allowed in, saves those poor Canadians a shock when they found out who she really is.
Almost as bad as being put on a no fly list simply because your government doesn't like you.
Or perhaps take to a secret prison in a foreign country where they can torture you to death for fun. Yeah following the law that's on the books is pretty evil of them. Sanctimonious Canadians who think they have control over their own country. How dare they.
1. You MAY be barred entry if you committed a crime; doesn't mean you will.
2. The same exact rule applies in the U.S., even WITHOUT reference to the USA PATRIOT act. With the PATRIOT act and all the recent extensions to police powers in the U.S., you may even be turned back on simple suspicion of ANYTHING; there's absolutely no recourse (Military Commissions Act of 2006). SO before you piss on Canada, look at yourself, dimwit
No one is 'angry' and it must be nice to dismiss everyone who disagrees with you simply by labeling them.
Canada did nothing wrong. Nelson Mandela himself publicly disavowed his former spouse for her crimes. She's hardly a tragic hero.
But of course ... calling someone a 'dimwit' is a respectful term.
My mistake.
Poor research; conspiracy-implying phrasing; insults in the "story"...
At what point does "dimwit" not apply?
If you are convicted of a crime that would otherwise bar entrance into Canada, you "petition the crown" by paying a (non-refundable) fee and explaining your case. If the crown deems you worthy, travel is approved. If not, so sorry no entrance. And they don't give your money back.
So is that how George W. "DUI" Bush got into the country a couple of years ago? I guess when you're a born-millionaire non-refundable fees don't worry you so much.
Hmmm, I wonder why a "humanitarian/activist"--which is what Nelson Mandela's ex-wife, Winnie, purports to be--with the resume possessed by the former (not current, as you imply) wife of the South African president would be denied entry into Canada?
Oh, right: she's a fraud and a criminal. Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, the ex-wife of South Africa's former president, was today given a five-year jail term for a string of fraud and theft offences. "A Pretoria court sentenced the anti-apartheid heroine to five years, with one year suspended, a day after she was convicted on 43 counts of fraud and 25 of theft." http://www.guardian.co.uk/southafrica/story/0,13262,943436,00.html The theft convictions were later overturned, on the rather "interesting" explanation that "The crimes were not committed for personal gain[.}" http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1553061,00.html (The issues surrounding whatever that exactly means and how it removes criminal culpability were not explained, and are beyond my reasoning abilities.) The fraud convictions were never overturned. But Winnie hasn't dabbled in only fraud. Oh, no. "In 1989, 14-year-old activist, Stompei Seipei Moketsi, was kidnapped by her guards and later found murdered. The ANC leadership declared that she was out of control but Nelson Mandela, in jail and in ill-health, refused to repudiate her. In 1991 Winnie Mandela was charged with the assault and kidnapping of Stompei. Initially convicted and given six years in jail, she appealed and had the sentence reduced to a fine." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_report/1998/10/98/truth_and_reconciliation/202516.stm What a charming lady!
I suppose it would have been better to have put her on a secret flight to Syria to be tortured by proxy by the American government. Sanctimonious my ass, that's rich. Pot, Kettle, Black.
Winnie mandela, as others have pointed out, is hardly a tragic figure, unless you consider her own behaviour to be the cause of her own personal tragedy. Gimme a break.
Wow, talk about lazy journalism. So what if the officials aren't available for comment. The details of how Canada's immigration system works in reference to criminals is easily available.
Just because you are married to a hero, doesn't make you one.
She is a convicted FELON. Thus, sorry, buh bye.
Not entirely true. My temper got me into some legal issues in me younger years but I've never had a problem going over the border.
She damn well should be barred from the country. She has been convicted of serious crimes, including fraud and kidnapping. Who cares what her name is? She's a common criminal who consorts with thugs.
I'm not a fan of Winnie Mandela and I'm aware that she's done some nasty things - that wasn't the point. Most Western countries don't bar people from visiting because you've committed a misdemeanor in your own country - that was my point.
Pre-emptively barring from visiting anyone with a DUI is just stupid. I found it amusing that the journalist didn't know this little rule about Canada, and thus wrote a story about it with no real information. Those of you who've commented implying I was unaware of Mrs. Mandela's past, or that I was somehow defending her, are presumptuous.
Mr. Geary,
I suggest you revisit your facts, or at the least, the assertion you make that "Most Western countries don't bar people from visiting because you've committed a misdemeanor in your own country - that was my point." Fifteen years ago, my fiance and I, along with 3 friends, attempted to cross the border at the Peace Arches to pick up a friend flying into Seattle and bring him back to Vancouver. We were stopped, pulled to the side, had our names run through the system, the car searched, our bodies strip-searched, and ultimately denied entry into the US. Why ? Because 10 years prior, my fiance had had a warrant issued for his arrest on an indictable (drug) offence. It was a "household" warrant, that is, as my fiance had once stayed - fleetingly - at a home later occupied by drug traffickers, he was (erroneously) named on the warrant. That warrant was vacated less than 6 months after its issuance, and he had never been charged with an offence of any kind before or since. We were told that on the basis of that (revoked) warrant, he was not permitted entry into the States. One other passenger in our car was also denied entry because of a young offender conviction for shoplifting 14 years prior (which actually wasn't a conviction as he received a suspended sentence, which in Canada is not a "conviction" but a finding of "guilt".) Now, what's your problem with Canada's policies, again ?
A border guard has no way to know whether what your friend was indicted was "erroneous" or not, so your comment is irrelevant.
The border agents were well aware that the warrant had been vacated. That fact was not in issue.
Relevant now ? You didn't, I note, address the case of the passenger with the 14 year old youth charge of theft under (a summary offence in Cda) in your reply. I will infer you find that scenario relevant. I should add to the antecdote that both passengers were given documentation to complete and remit to the U.S. Immigration Dept if they wished a reconsideration of their status - in essence, they were requested to submit an appeal factum. Mr. Geary, I don't understand the point of your reporting on this incident. I linked to this story via C&L as I am interested in all things Cda appearing on US blogs. By the headline, I expected to be outraged at my government for barring entry without cause. Instead, I find a weakly presented, factually incorrect and seemingly inflammatory bit about how the former wife of Mr. Mandella was allegedly barred with "no reason given". It is disappointing to see your lack of response to the posters who took the time to carefully point out the flaws in your reporting, and disturbing that you would cherrypick mine for a point you think you can easily debunk. I've not read any of your other blog entries and am not inclined to do so if this is the calibre of work to be expected. One final comment... Mr. Elias has some serious growing up to do.
Indeed. I think I need to lose my 's' in this argument!
Oh, how I wish a DUI was reason enough to keep someone out of Canada: I'm not a big fan of my current premier!
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0012438
I called the author a "dimwit" because:
1. The story is false. He should have checked his facts. 2. He's criticizing Canada on a point the U.S. has a much worse record. So he doesn't know what he's talking about, AND he's a bigot who can't even take the time to look up the laws of his OWN country before he attacked another. So I'm sorry, the 'dimwit' remark stands, because it's completely warranted. It's not a gratuitous ad-hominem, it's a justified ad-hominem; big difference. AND, it's SOOOO typical of Americans, it hurts...
I see, Denis. Thanks for 'clarifying.'
I have so much to learn from you...
"Dimwit?" Grow up.
I said nothing in the story which is false. The US doesn't bar from visitation people who've been convicted of drunk driving. Calling me a bigot is silly. Bigoted against Canadians? That's laughable and at some level you must know that. I said the government of Canada was sanctimonious. It is. That's ad hominem? I'd say being thin-skinned is "typical of Canadians," but I'll leave the intellectually lazy generalizations to you.
'I'd say being thin-skinned is "typical of Canadians," but I'll leave the intellectually lazy generalizations to you.'
Except that you just said it, and are therefore by your own admission, being intellectually lazy. Like someone else said: better to be denied entry than subjected to secret rendition.
BS. Any arrest can get you barred from the U.S., whether there's a conviction or not. PLEASE look again at your own laws before criticizing those of another country. You CLEARLY don't know what you're talking about. There are a number of people who have to go through hoops to be allowed into the U.S.
One case you might want to examine is that of the late former Prime Minister of Canada, Pierre Eliott Trudeau, who was put on a black-list and barred from entry in the U.S. for decades. So again: Look in the mirror, dimwit.
"Pre-emptively barring from visiting anyone with a DUI is just stupid."
Hold your horses there, fella! Your facile statement, quoted above, begs several questions--some directly related to the issue, some with an oblique relation--among them: -Why is a D.U.I. just a misdemeanor? The aforementioned behavior, the inebriated operation of a motor vehicle, probably ranks right up there among the actions one can commit that are most reckless--both in terms of possible resultant outcomes and in terms of, shall we say, ethical considerations. If upon conviction of the first D.U.I. (or, being generous, even the second) the offender was stripped of his driving privileges, there likely would not be much of an issue: the offender could not drive in his own country; nor could he drive in any other country (at least, not legally, though I don't know if I would want to put my trust in the law abiding instincts of drunk drivers). But that's not the way it works, is it? The fact is that most, if not all, drunk drivers, before they cause an accident with grievous consequences, have not only driven drunk on multiple occasions, but also have received multiple citations for drunk driving. The point that I'm trying to make here, belabored as it is, is actually quite simple: when it comes to drunk driving, D.U.I. offenders--whether or not they are in possession of a license--vis a vis the general population, pose an elevated risk of committing a crime. -Why is it so unfathomable that a country, Western or not, would evaluate the backgrounds of those people wanting to visit within its borders? To me, to do so would seem to be sensible. At all events, even if were silly that a drunk driving misdemeanor conviction in your country of residence could get you barred from Canada; even if Canada were acting in a manner that could be considered "out of step" with other Western countries--as you seemed to imply ("Most Western countries don't bar people from visiting"), though you didn't, you know, cite any evidence that buttressed the point; even if all that were true, there'd still be a slight problem with your claiming that "[m]ost people (including this reporter) don't know that if you've been convicted of anything anywhere in the world that would be a felony in Canada - this includes drunk driving - you can't go to Canada." The problem? It isn't true. The government can prevent you from entering the country; you are not automatically banned. "You MAY not be permitted to enter Canada if you have a criminal conviction, including a conviction for driving while impaired." Interesting that you didn't bother to quote the rest of the Citizenship and Immigration Canada page that you linked to. Had you bothered to add the additional text, or to click one or two other links, we all would have learned some interesting supplemental information, including the following facts: -"If you have juvenile convictions (convictions for crimes committed while under the age of 18), you are most likely not prohibited from entering Canada." -There is an entire FAQ section that deals with the issue of prior criminal convictions (including drunk driving), from which we learn: ~"Rehabilitation means that you lead a stable life and that you are unlikely to be involved in any further criminal activity. If you want to come to Canada, but you have committed or been convicted of a crime, you may apply for rehabilitation to enter Canada. Requests for rehabilitation should be made at a visa office outside Canada. Such a request usually requires proof that at least five years have elapsed since the end of any sentence imposed (including any period of parole/probation), and that further criminal activity is unlikely." ~~"Depending on the nature of the offence, the time elapsed and your behaviour since it was committed or since you were sentenced, you may no longer be considered inadmissible to Canada. You may be permitted to come to Canada if you are able to satisfy an immigration officer that you meet the legal requirement to be deemed rehabilitated; or you have applied for rehabilitation and your application has been approved; or you have obtained a pardon; or you have obtained a temporary resident permit. ~~~"Deemed Rehabilitation You may be deemed rehabilitated if you meet the requirements of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. Depending on the nature of your offence, at least five years and as many as 10 years must have passed since you completed the sentence imposed for your crime. Deemed rehabilitation also depends on whether you have committed one or more offences. In all cases, you may only be deemed rehabilitated if the offence committed would be punishable in Canada by a maximum term of imprisonment of less than 10 years. You are not required to submit an application to be deemed rehabilitated. However, before arriving at a port of entry, we strongly advise you to contact a Canadian embassy, high commission or consulate outside Canada to see if you qualify." Anyway, your attempt to draw a parallel between Winnie Mandela's situation and that of someone convicted of a drunk driving misdemeanor doesn't even make sense, as Winnie Mandela previously has been convicted of, in the 1991 case, kidnapping and being an accessory to assault in connection with the death of Moeketsi (sentence was reduced to a fine, on appeal) and, in 2003 case, of 43 counts of fraud (her fraud conviction standing, while her theft convictionwas thrown out). None of those crimes are misdemeanors.
Just as an amusing side note, in theory you can be barred from entering the United States for providing alcohol to someone under 21 in Germany (drinking age 16) or Canada (drinking age varies). And woe betide you if you were to smoke a joint in Amsterdam and then try to visit the United States.
And, get this, if your family and some friends travel to Canada and you buy a (legal) drink for your friend's 17-year-old son at a restaurant, you're committing a felony and are subject to arrest upon reentering the United States. Are you just discovering that there are weird laws that apply at the borders of nations? Because Canada's are far, far less bizarre, broken, and profoundly dangerous than the US's are. -fred
I don't think you Americans have any idea how dangerous your current gov't is. They are the greatest threat to world peace and most americans are so blind to this fact. I dont hate America, but I am scared of your current administration.
The US is 'the greatest threat to world peace' -- quite a statement.
Care to elaborate?
I have to say, if I were asked which of all the recently posted articles would become a hotbed of name-calling, accusations of bigotry, and soap-boxing about the Patriot Act, I would never have guessed the one about Canadian border policies.
Go figure. Remember when Conan O'Brien visited Canada and made a video about his day working as a border patrol agent? That was awesome. http://youtube.com/watch?v=gy_EILf-alA
Let me get this straight:
1. you make a clearly false statement about Canadian immigration policy (where if you have even such an insignificant offense as a DUI on your record), you WILL be refused entry. 2. You imply quite clearly that Canada is in some way uniquely idiotic in this respect, and make it sound like America is somehow above the fray, and would NEVER have anything resembling that rule on its books. 3. Because we point out how idiotic your comments are, considering that you (and all your (American) defenders) haven't taken the time to look at your own (and might I add, most of the world's) laws, jumped the gun, and called Canada a bunch of morons in so many words for refusing to allow such a hallowed personality as Winnie Mandela, a convicted felon who did nothing but mar the image of her husband, you FREAK out, and (you Americans) imply that Canadians are thin skinned, because we refuse to accept a clearly unwarranted accusation? sorry, but all you Americans are, I REPEAT, dimwits, until and unless you stop considering yourselves somehow exempt from the human standards of conduct. When you are responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths around the world, you have very little to stand on in terms of moralistic gravitas, don't you think? So clean up your own house before you start telling others what to do. It's not like you don't have a shitload of cleaning to do...
Denis, thanks for your deeply thoughtful observation:
"sorry, but all you Americans are, I REPEAT, dimwits, until and unless you stop considering yourselves somehow exempt from the human standards of conduct. When you are responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths around the world, you have very little to stand on in terms of moralistic gravitas, don't you think?" Me thank you for teach me so good. Me wish me smart like you. Me thank you for spend time learn me. Me grateful.
You guys have GOT to realize how thoroughly hated you are in the world. You are not the good guys in the eyes of most people. We (and yes, I believe I can say we, since every poll taken in the last 4 or so years support me on this) view every action the U.S. takes with suspicion; that's what comes with throwing your weight (and military) around the way an ape throws their crap.
So, I repeat, you may wish to make light of the criticism made of you, attempting to dismiss them as simply "anti-American", but then I'm entitled to label anything that comes out of your mouths as "anti-Human". Sorry, but America IS NOT the World.
My advice to you is to buy condoms and spermacide by the case ... and to use those products all the time. Even when you're not getting laid.
Please do us this little favor.
I notice you haven't even started to address the substance of the issue.
Indeed ... as it was such a 'substantive' argument you put forth.
Fool. |
Poll Checker: 2012 Battleground States and Leaners
A new book from Tom Elia A compilation of actual presidential & aggregate US House votes for the nation & for the 'battleground states' from 2000-2010. When Lobsters Take Flight
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