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Monday, April 16. 2007At Least 20 Dead in Shooting at Virginia Tech (Updated: More than 30 dead)Trackbacks
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I'm a big "well regulated militia" person when it comes to the 2nd amendment. For me, the question of whether or not another individual with a gun could have taken down the shooter hinges on proper training and licensing. If the hypothetical teacher or student was trained to handle a gun, it might have made all the difference; if he was just somebody with a gun it could have made a bad situation worse.
I'm putting a lot of blind faith in the reporter, but it's possible that her question was to try and get a basic idea of the shooter's profile.
Worse? Hard to imagine. The shooter might have thought twice.
FYI, Concealed Handgun Licensing in Texas requires: 1. a minimum 10-hour course by a by a Texas DPS-licensed instructor, 2. a written exam covering handgun storage and safety, applicable firearm laws, non-violent conflict resolution, and 3. a shooting proficiency practical exam, firing 50 rounds at various distances. In addition, the applicant must be of sound mind, have a clean criminal record, (pass a state and FBI background check), not chemically dependent, provide full set of fingerprints, not be subject to any protective orders, and not delinquent in child support. Virginia's concealed permit requirements are listed in the LINK below; Texas has a reciprocity agreement with Virginia wherein each state honors the others permits. Even with a Virginia Handgun Permit I'm not sure without further research whether a handgun may be legally carried on a Virginia college campus (it appears that Virginia Commonwealth Univ. has banned guns). Note also -- Virginia is an Open Carry state. [Wikipedia has a good explanation]. *
UPDATE ON VA. CONCEALED CARRY ON CAMPUS:
VIRGINIA TECH MASSACRE State quashed bill allowing handguns on campuses College spokesman celebrated 2006 defeat because it would help make campus safe ______ "More than one year before today's unprecedented shooting rampage at Virginia Tech, the state's General Assembly quashed a bill that would have given qualified college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus. At the time, Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker said he was happy to hear of the bill's defeat, according to the Roanoke Times. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus," the Virginia Tech spokesman said. The proposal, House Bill 1572, was initiated by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. But the bill didn't pass its first stage, the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety." See LINK below for the rest of the article. +
UPDATE: (See LINK below)
Virgina AG Opinion (1/4/2006): [Colleges and universities may regulate conduct of students and employees to prohibit concealed handguns by permit holders. ] As mentioned in the article linked in the previous comment above, HB 1572 was proposed after a student with a concealed handgun permit was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class. So while Va Tech may not generally prohibit properly licensed handguns, it can expel students or fire employees for exercising their rights. *
Since the shooter killed himself, I think we can reliably say this wasn't a situation were other people being armed would have been a deterrant; unlike a robbery or an assault.
There's no school shooting where another student has had the option of shooting back in defense, so I'm thinking only in arguable comparisons. Things like gang wars, where you have a bunch of idiots in a heated moment firing like crazy, and bystanders getting shot. Mainly it's because I've had it drilled into me that in a serious emergency, you need to keep your head down so you don't delay the police or SWAT. Thanks for all the great info on gun control; I'm bookmarking it for future reference.
You are welcome, the most comprehensive site for concealed carry info (in spite of its name) is http://www.packing.org/
Two points: First, don't overlook that predators look for soft targets. I doubt that anyone could have prevented the initial shooting, but given the history of gun issues on campus, the shooter had to know that the classrooms would be unarmed. Can't say whether it entered into his choice of a 2nd target. Second, another Virginia school shooting highlights what armed students can and did do: "On January 16, 2002, Peter Odighizuwa, 43, of Nigeria, who had recently flunked out of the Appalachian School of Law, arrived at the school. Odighizuwa first discussed his academic suspension with professor Dale Rubin, where it is reported that he told Rubin to pray for him.[1] Odighizuwa then walked to the offices of Dean Anthony Sutin and Professor Thomas Blackwell, where Odighizuwa opened fire with a .38-caliber semi-automatic handgun. According to a county coroner, powder burns indicated that both people were shot at point blank range.[2] Killed along with the two staff members was a student, Angela Denise Dales, age 33. When Odighizuwa exited the building where the shooting took place, he was approached by two students with personal firearms.[3] At the first sound of gunfire, fellow students Tracy Bridges and Mikael Gross, unbeknownst to the other, had run to their vehicles to grab their personal firearms[4] (with Bridges pulling his .357-caliber Magnum pistol from beneath the driver's seat of his Chevy Tahoe). As Bridges later told the Richmond Times Dispatch, he was prepared to shoot to kill.[5] Bridges and Gross then worked with another student, Ted Besen. The three students approached Odighizuwa from different angles. Bridges raised his revolver and pointed it at Odighizuwa while yelling at Odighizuwa to drop his gun.[6] Odighizuwa then dropped his firearm and was first subdued by Besen, followed by other students.[7] Once Odighizuwa was securely held down Gross went back to his vehicle and retrieved handcuffs to help hold Odighizuwa until police could arrive. Police reports noted there were two empty eight round magazines belonging to Odighizuwa’s .380 semi-automatic handgun. It is unclear whether Odighizuwa ran out of ammunition or if there was still a round in the chamber at the time that he dropped his firearm." See LINK below for additional info. I've read other stories of armed citizens intervening in school shootings which I'll link if I find them. *
I'm wondering how Columbine, the massacre at the Luby's restaurant in Killeen, Texas a number of years ago and this incident could possibly have been worse.
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