John Kerry, the Repub's Political Gift from Heaven

Saturday, April 22. 2006

John Kerry, the Repub's Political Gift from Heaven

According to AP, in a speech at Boston's Faneuil Hall today, Sen. John Kerry "blasted those who question the motivation of retired generals who have recently called for the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld," saying:

"How dare those who never wore the uniform in battle attack those who wore it all their lives."

Yes indeed. How dare those who have never worn the uniform criticize those who have?

Someone tell Sen. Kerry that civilians in this country run the military, and that those civilians do that by winning presidential elections.

Or perhaps Sen. Kerry would like to explain why people who didn't serve in the military -- such as Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Abraham Lincoln, and Franklin Delano Roosevelt -- had no right to criticize others who had served during their respective times.

I'm anxious to hear the Massachusetts senator's explanation....

Posted by Tom Elia in Politics at 17:32 | Comments (0) | Trackbacks (125)

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Abe Lincoln served in the Illinois militia during the Black Hawk War.

#1 Axel Kassel on 2006-04-22 20:55 (Reply)

Yes, that's right, but it was hardly what one would consider military service.

He served for less than three months, with two different experiences.

First, he served for about thirty days, where he was elected "captain," and then for another fifty days where he served as a private.

He saw no action and mocked his own service...

#1.1 Tom on 2006-04-23 11:11 (Reply)

Abe could mock his own service because (tada) he'd worn the uniform...

#1.1.1 Axel Kassel on 2006-04-23 21:12 (Reply)

John Kerry sounds a little foolish here because he was savaged by swift boat pimps in the last election. But I agree with Tom on this one. Anybody should be allowed to criticize anybody, military experience or not.

Keeping that in mind, Donald Rumsfeld was criticized for his incompetent leadership and meglomania, entirely justified in my view. The Bush Administration's problem is that if Rumsfeld goes, so does the fragile psychology remaining in support of the Iraq war and US occupation - and shortly after that, Bush himself. Best, Don

#2 don matson on 2006-04-23 19:01 (Reply)

"John Kerry sounds a little foolish here because he was savaged by swift boat pimps[?] in the last election."

They were his fellow officers and virtually his entire chain-of-command (ie., his superior officers) and the one crew member who served on his boat the longest. They weren't "pimping" anything (whatever you mean by that); they were just deeply concerned that someone barely fit for service might become Commander In Chief, perish the thought.

[i served in the Navy from '70 to '74, thankfully under officers who were fit to be called same.]

#2.1 bob on 2006-04-23 21:50 (Reply)

"Someone barely fit for service," Bob? You mean George W. Bush. John Kerry was in combat in Vietnam, on a boat, without his entire chain of command present. Imagine those who were with him who would criticize him for POLITICAL PARTISANSHIP.

But why not? Anybody can criticize anybody, right? Just imagine the Generals who criticized Rumsfeld. Was it for POLITICAL PARTISANSHIP? I don't think so.

#2.1.1 don on 2006-04-24 19:18 (Reply)

Don,

I co-wrote this piece with my friend David Rogers in August 2004 -- you might find it germane to the topic at hand:

http://www.theneweditor.com/KerryCampaignEmphasisonVietnam.html

Best,

Tom

#2.1.1.1 Tom on 2006-04-24 20:36 (Reply)

Hi, Tom:

Too bad your archives only go back to October, 2004. But no doubt your article of August '04 with David Rogers was insightful. But the point here is not about John Kerry and those of his military comrades who trashed him (especially that "chain of command") because they were asked to by Karl Rove and George W. Bush. It's about the right to criticize public officials by ANYONE, without intimidation, free speech, which I know you agree with. Especially those like Donald Rumsfeld, truly one of the worst public officials ever appointed to office. Best, Don

#2.1.1.1.1 don on 2006-04-25 17:24 (Reply)

I think there was enough of a reservoir of dislike within the military for John Kerry to assume that the Swift Boat vets did it on their own, not, as you suggest, at the request of Bush and Rove.

I personally know of a number of vets who months before told me how they felt about his accusations during the Vietnam War.

I disagree with you about Rumsfeld, I think he's probably more disliked by some in the military for the changes he's trying to bring than for Iraq (go back and see what was being said about Rumsfeld's battle to nix the Crusader artillery system, for example).

#2.1.1.1.1.1 Tom on 2006-04-25 18:12 (Reply)

"Kerry sounds a little foolish...." There may be hope for you yet. At least everyone seems to agree no one is beyond criticism.

Kerry's restriction (no criticism unless you wear a uniform in battle) is more than foolish, however, and his statement deserves some further analysis.

Logically, if you cannot criticize unless you wore the uniform, if follows that you cannot applaud either. If first-hand experience is a requirement for opposing
a policy, it must also be a requirement for supporting one. That's not merely foolish, it's elitist. Accepting Kerry's nonsense would effectively force all non-veterans to remain mute. The fact that the Swift Boaters effectively shredded him should have made him more reluctant to make such statements, not less. It is precisely when our own ox is gored that we need to defend free speech, lest we lose our own.

And that's the point about Kerry. His kind of logic is shared by many. The fact that it can be applied to any one, or any group, at any time, seems to bother him not at all. And that is truly frightening.

#2.2 Mike on 2006-04-29 13:33 (Reply)

OK, Tom:
You always have an answer, that's your job. If you really believe that the swift boat pimps (including the "chain of command") were waiting to jump on John Kerry - a man who showed ability and courage - and did not act at the REQUEST OF KARL ROVE and GEORGE W. BUSH, then good luck to you - you have a lot to learn.

What the vets you cite don't like is that he had the courage to oppose the war. His comments about atrocities committed during that war have been documented. The Viet Cong committed the same atrocities. They are part of the reality of that time. Find a Vietnam vet that says different. It's an old story.

Rumsfeld. He's the one who, with Cheney, pushed weakling George W. Bush into the tragic war in Iraq. They were like his daddies: you really aren't qualified to be President, let's exercise military power, pretend we're listening to young "neoconservatives" like "Wolf" and Crystal, pretend Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction,etc. A really terrible public official: most Americans can't wait until he goes. Don

#3 don on 2006-04-26 21:00 (Reply)

Don,

You can think what you'd like about my analytical abilities, but I wouldn't underestimate your ability to sell mine short (or anyone else's for that matter) .

But you couldn't be more wrong about the 'accuracy' of Kerry's assertions of supposedly widespread atrocities perpetrated in Vietnam -- his past assertions are demonstrably false.

I know plenty of Vietnam vets who would tell you the same thing I just wrote; that's where I heard it. (I wonder, by the way, how many soldiers you know personally.)

As for Rumsfeld, you seem to be fairly keen to assert as fact your own suppositions about the lead-up to the war in Iraq.

I sure wouldn't put much stock in them.

Best,

Tom

#3.1 Tom on 2006-04-26 21:35 (Reply)

Don,
Kerry supporters like to keep repeating that the Swift Boat Vets were some sort of Rove plot - I guess self-delusion is the strongest emotion. There simply is no evidence that Rove ever thought that the Swift Boat Vets were anything he wanted any part of. The lead personality had despised John Kerry for most of three decades.

Kerry and his supporters need to grow up and realize that Kerry's own tacky and transparent attempt to insulate himself from criticism of his own actions was what drove the Swift Boat Vets to respond. Then they need to grow up and realize that Kerry was legitimately and repeatedly caught in gross exaggeration and misrepresentations of his own life.

Couple that with the fraudulent attempts by Democrats to attack George Bush's service, and perhaps Kerry's supporters would realize their own hypocrisy.

To return to the actual substance of this posting, Kerry's statement quoted above shows just how much he lacks any real integrity and how much Kerry is still wedded to the self-image of himself as victim for getting caught in deceit.

#4 Robin Roberts (Homepage) on 2006-04-26 22:45 (Reply)

Hi,Robin:

You aren't even in the game. All the "grow up" comments indicate that you know zip about Vietnam and zip about John Kerry. The "lead personality" as you call him, John O'Neill, is a Bush pimp who was in regular touch with Karl Rove. And John Kerry is not "wedded to any deceit", as you young right-wingers may think: He was on a boat in Vietnam in combat. Brave man, good man, punk.

Back to Tom:

Have you read any of the literature coming out of the Vietnam experience? Doesn't sound like it. Atrocities were an everyday experience, committed by both sides. This doesn't need further debate.

Not a bad comeback on Rummy, but let's face it, Tom, he's like bad whiskey: the more you have, the worse it gets. Best, Don

#4.1 don on 2006-04-27 20:20 (Reply)

Don,

Yes, I have read some literature about Vietnam, and no, I don't believe that "atrocities' were apart of the everyday experience.

By the way, never bet against a New Trier boy, it'll leave a mark...

Best,

Tom

#5 Tom on 2006-04-27 22:28 (Reply)

Don, since you fail to deal with the facts - that Kerry was caught in deceit - it would be a good idea for you to acquire some maturity. Notice that I did not make any comment about his supposed "combat" record, I discussed his record since. You changed the subject because you refuse to deal with the reality of Kerry's own actions and his responsibility for them. You attempt to insulate him from the consequences of his actions - not the mark of a grown up.

The Swiftboat vets themselves served as much or more than Kerry. By your supposed standard, they should have your respect too. But they don't, why? Because your supposed respect for Kerry's combat record is a fraud and your reaction to criticism of Kerry hypocrisy.

#6 Robin Roberts (Homepage) on 2006-04-28 09:15 (Reply)

Hi, Robin:

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings, but, my friend, if I acquire any more maturity, I'll be collecting Social Security (sorry, old joke).

You're not right about Kerry, or the "Swift Boaters". I'm a guy who was young then and there. You may not know this, but most of the Swift Boaters who served with Kerry have respect for him. The ones who don't, including the ridiculous "chain of command" officers who have to stand judgement for their performance, and John O'Neill, who has lived in a dreamworld of revenge, are not paying attention to the past AS IT HAPPENED. Stop trying to address a subject you know nothing about from an ideological perspective, and do your homework. Grow up.

Tom: you could do some research, too.

Best, Don

#6.1 don on 2006-04-28 16:28 (Reply)

Don,

I've done research on the matter -- that's why I think you're wrong.

Tom

#6.1.1 Tom on 2006-04-28 16:33 (Reply)

Hi, Tom:

You must be in the wrong research dep't. Other than the novels and stories in publication, and there are many, try Boston.com, Vietnam atrocities, AP, 2003.

Tom, it doesn't do any good to be in denial. Otherwise, you end up with
kids like Robin: Gee, if I think I'm right, then I'm right. The Enlightenment happened over 500 years ago: what you see is true, not what you believe. Best Don

#7 don on 2006-04-28 17:15 (Reply)

Don,

You would certainly be an expert on being in denial. Tell me what it's like?

Let me ask a question. If he were alive today, would Henry Wallace be your favorite candidate?

I think I know the answer.

Best,

Tom

#7.1 Tom on 2006-04-28 18:22 (Reply)

Tom:

Wow, you guys are tough: even when you're dead you don't lie down. But isn't that the nature of a blog site: doesn't matter what's true, it's never over for those who can't admit they don't know what they're talking about. What you need is a New Editor.

Love the Henry Wallace comment. He from Texas? Nah, as you might expect, Tom, I'm a George McGovern guy. End the War Now. But that's another story. Don

#7.1.1 don on 2006-04-28 19:46 (Reply)

Don,
I'm no "kid". I watched contemporary coverage of John Kerry's lies about Vietnam during his congressional testimony in the '70's. I watched O'Neil take on Kerry at the time and eviscerate him face to face. One of my best friends was patroling in PBR's during the era that Kerry was in Swift boats. I've read the work of the people who debunked the lies Kerry fronted for in the "Winter Solder" fraud such as Burkett's "Stolen Valor". And more recently, I watched Arnett discredited as CNN was caught lying about American actions in Vietnam.

Kerry has lied about what he did, and he has been caught lying about Vietnam veterans' actions. You have failed to deal with the facts and you have failed to deal with your own hypocrisy. You've failed to convince anyone but yourself.

#8 Robin Roberts (Homepage) on 2006-04-28 22:17 (Reply)

The first time I heard John Kerry speak, I said to myself, "If this lying thug ever gets anywhere, it will be a sad, sad world we live in."

In 1984, when he ran for the US Senate, I could not believe it. Yet the prick won.

It was sooooo bad when a William Weld, to the left of Che Guevera, runs against Kerry in 1996. How bad is a race where there are TWO losers running?

When Kerry said he was running for President, I laughed. After all, what party in their right mind would nominate this boldfaced liar?

My bad. I should have realized how dimwitted and pathetic the Democrats truly are. Sort of like the Republicans nominating Wendell Willkie in 1940.

That Kerry came within 100,000 votes in Ohio (and take my word for it - Kerry would have had his minions steal those 100,000, as he and his minions steal votes in Massachusetts, if they could have gotten away with it) shows how utterly frightening the 2004 election was.

I would say that "no way will Kerry run because the Democrats cannot be stupid TWICE to nominate this thug," but, as I was wrong so many times before with this crowd of wastoids, I will be wrong again.

The word is, though, that if Kerry, or Hillary Clinton, or any Democrat gets elected to the Presidency before 2050 (and, hopefully, long after that), you can get out your maps and cross the USA off the world scene. Because the enemies of this country are waiting with bated breath for Americans to make the mistake of a millenium and make John Kerry or Hillary Clinton President.

Alexander Alt
Miami, Florida

#9 Alexander Alt on 2006-04-30 02:28 (Reply)

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